To continue on with this, I added some code mix phasor signals between the original and the phaseshaper for the purpose of getting a "dynamic phase distortion" akin to what happens in the CZ101. The code from earlier became: andx phasor kpchline andx2 table3 andx, giphaseshape_, 1 andx = (andx * (1 - kenv)) + (andx2 * kenv) ; the kenv is 0-1, and this is the mixing of the signals aout table3 andx, gi_sine, 1 I've attached a small CSD example. The example has a lot of blue generated code, but the instr itself is not very complicated. BTW: I'm absolutely enjoying the sounds generated with this, so thanks Anthony and all for the discussions involved! steven On Dec 5, 2007 3:28 PM, Steven Yi wrote: > Hmm... what I'm finding is that the PD is sort of like waveshaping but > for the phasor and not the audio signal (phase shaping is what I'm > calling it in this instrument I have here). Thus, what Anthony is > going for is actually different from the CZ101 if I understand the > instrument correctly. > > I built an instrument in blue today where I can draw the phase shaping > table. The main part of the code I have is: > > andx phasor kpchline > andx table3 andx, giphaseshape_, 1 > aout table3 andx, gi_sine, 1 > > The phasor cycles at the kpchline (frequency). That then indexes into > the phase-shaping table giphaseshape_ (where the > is replaced with the instrument number; a blue convention), and then > that index is used to index into the sine table. The 8 tables of the > CZ101 then are not modified but the lookup is. > > The phase-shape table then has boundaries of 0-1, to correspond with > the phase. This would be different than what I think Anthony is > building which I believe is more akin to waveshaping than phase > distortion. > > Can anyone confirm this? > > steven > > > > On Dec 5, 2007 12:59 PM, wrote: > > yes, I used to play on a borrowed cz1000 with > > four voices of polyphony and no velocity. I liked the > > mono synth sounds I used to get out of it. > > > > At the time, the cz line was viewed more or less like > > the poor man's DX7, but I think it was more than that. > > > > Victor > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Steven Yi > > > > Date: Wednesday, December 5, 2007 8:54 pm > > Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] New opcodes useful? > > To: Developer discussions > > > > > I'm continuing to research now as I wasn't really familiar with the > > > CZ101 before and find this all fascinating. I also found this: > > > > > > http://www.algomusic.net/PDSynthesis.html > > > > > > The manual for the CZ101: > > > > > > http://www.casionz.co.nz/Site/Pronto/Files/user_manuals/CZ101%20USER%20MANUAL.PDF > > > > > > This page has an interesting look at the generated waveforms compared > > > to the pictures: > > > > > > http://www.madtheory.com/CZ%20article/CZ%20article.htm > > > > > > Not sure how much more info there is there for technical description, > > > but I find the CZ101 general info pretty interesting and am enjoying > > > listening to mp3 samples. =) > > > > > > steven > > > > > > On Dec 5, 2007 12:19 PM, wrote: > > > > yes, I saw that some time ago. Not much in the way of > > > > a mathematical description, though. > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Steven Yi > > > > Date: Wednesday, December 5, 2007 8:15 pm > > > > Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] New opcodes useful? > > > > > > > > To: Developer discussions > > > > > > > > > Hi Victor, > > > > > > > > > > I did find this wikipedia article just now: > > > > > > > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase_distortion_synthesis > > > > > > > > > > BTW: I'm looking very forward too trying these out Anthony! > > > > > > > > > > steven > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Dec 5, 2007 11:54 AM, > > > wrote:> > > Do you know if there is any references on PD in the > > > > > > literature. Apart from the simple descriptions on Casio > > > > > > manuals, I never saw anything else. > > > > > > > > > > > > yes, the PD technique as I understand it does not seem > > > > > > to be bandlimited. But I wonder if there are any tricks > > > > > > that are not documented anywhere. > > > > > > > > > > > > Also do you know how to produce the resonant version > > > > > > of PD? That was an interesting sound. > > > > > > > > > > > > Interesting to see the classic topic of waveshaping being > > > > > > discussed, as well. In these days of fast computers, people > > > > > > seemed to forget about these great ways of economically > > > > > > synthesising complex spectra. > > > > > > > > > > > > Victor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Anthony Kozar > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, December 5, 2007 7:40 pm > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] New opcodes useful? > > > > > > To: Csound Developer list > > devel@lists.sourceforge.net>> > > > > > > > > > Well, if my intuitions are correct, using continuous k-rate > > > > > > > > > > > > > coefficientswith either the polynomial or chebyshevpoly > > > opcodes> > > > should produce smooth > > > > > > > and continuous changes in the output. I have > > > tested the > > > > > > > latter by > > > > > > > controlling several harmonics independently and I got smooth > > > > > > > changes just as > > > > > > > if I had used additive synthesis with multiple > > > > > > > oscillators. I would be > > > > > > > interested to know if there is some mathematical problem > > > > > that I am > > > > > > > overlooking. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding the phase distortion opcodes: the reason > > > I was > > > > > > > questioning their > > > > > > > utility is that they DO produce aliasing because the > > > derivative> > > > of the > > > > > > > resulting signal is discontinuous. I think -- but > > > am not > > > > > > > sure -- that > > > > > > > Casio's original implementation of this technique was > > > not 100% > > > > > > > digital. But > > > > > > > depending on the genre of music, aliasing is not always > > > a bad > > > > > > > thing :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Another use for the PD opcodes is to use them on audio signals > > > > > > > instead of > > > > > > > phasors, in which case they behave as piecewise-linear > > > transfer> > > > functions.This also produces aliasing, but they > > > have definite > > > > > > > applications as > > > > > > > alternative distortion techniques. powershape is also > > > > > > > excellent for > > > > > > > distortion, although it can produce milder, bandlimited > > > > > changes too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At least this is my understanding of everything -- I am > > > not a > > > > > > > DSP guru ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anthony Kozar > > > > > > > anthonykozar AT sbcglobal DOT net > > > > > > > http://anthonykozar.net/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Victor.Lazzarini@nuim.ie wrote on 12/5/07 4:00 AM: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Interesting... I am wondering if radical changes tothe the > > > > > > > transfer function > > > > > > > > would cause discontinuities inthe output signal. Never > > > thought> > > > of the > > > > > > > > question. I'll love to try them. Coincidentally, I was only > > > > > > > > yesterdayteaching > > > > > > > > a class on waveshaping. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Victor.Lazzarini@nuim.ie wrote on 12/5/07 2:54 AM: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >>> PD seem useful. UDOs are also good because they're > > > > > > > didactical, can you > > > > > > > >>> do both? > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Thanks. I wrote the phase dist. opcodes (and > > > powershape> > > > below) a while ago > > > > > > > >> but I will make UDOs too. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >>> How do the waveshaping opcodes you mention > > > > > > > >>> differ from simply building them with oscillator and table > > > > > > > >>> lookup? > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> They allow for _dynamic_ waveshaping where the transfer > > > > > > > function varies over > > > > > > > >> time. I have written the following opcodes so > > > far and > > > > > > > hope to come up with > > > > > > > >> some more: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> aout powershape ain, > > > kShapeAmount [, > > > > > > > ifullscale]>> aout polynomial > > > ain, ka0 > > > > > > > [, ka1 [, ka2 [...]]] > > > > > > > >> aout chebyshevpoly ain, ka0 [, ka1 [, ka2 [...]]] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------- > > > ---- > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > -------- > > > > > > > SF.Net email is sponsored by: The Future of Linux Business > > > > > White Paper > > > > > > > from Novell. From the desktop to the data center, > > > > > Linux is going > > > > > > > mainstream. Let it simplify your IT future. > > > > > > > http://altfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/8857-50307-18918-4 > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > Csound-devel mailing list > > > > > > > Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > > ---- > > > > > ---------- > > > > > > SF.Net email is sponsored by: The Future of Linux Business > > > > > White Paper > > > > > > from Novell. From the desktop to the data center, Linux > > > > > is going > > > > > > mainstream. Let it simplify your IT future. > > > > > > http://altfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/8857-50307-18918-4 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Csound-devel mailing list > > > > > > Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ---- > > > > > -------- > > > > > SF.Net email is sponsored by: The Future of Linux Business > > > White Paper > > > > > from Novell. From the desktop to the data center, > > > Linux is going > > > > > mainstream. Let it simplify your IT future. > > > > > http://altfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/8857-50307-18918-4 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Csound-devel mailing list > > > > > Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ---------- > > > > SF.Net email is sponsored by: The Future of Linux Business > > > White Paper > > > > from Novell. From the desktop to the data center, Linux > > > is going > > > > mainstream. Let it simplify your IT future. > > > > http://altfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/8857-50307-18918-4 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Csound-devel mailing list > > > > Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > -------- > > > SF.Net email is sponsored by: The Future of Linux Business White Paper > > > from Novell. From the desktop to the data center, Linux is going > > > mainstream. Let it simplify your IT future. > > > http://altfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/8857-50307-18918-4 > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Csound-devel mailing list > > > Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > SF.Net email is sponsored by: The Future of Linux Business White Paper > > from Novell. From the desktop to the data center, Linux is going > > mainstream. Let it simplify your IT future. > > http://altfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/8857-50307-18918-4 > > _______________________________________________ > > Csound-devel mailing list > > Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel > > > > >