Hmm... what I'm finding is that the PD is sort of like waveshaping but for the phasor and not the audio signal (phase shaping is what I'm calling it in this instrument I have here). Thus, what Anthony is going for is actually different from the CZ101 if I understand the instrument correctly. I built an instrument in blue today where I can draw the phase shaping table. The main part of the code I have is: andx phasor kpchline andx table3 andx, giphaseshape_, 1 aout table3 andx, gi_sine, 1 The phasor cycles at the kpchline (frequency). That then indexes into the phase-shaping table giphaseshape_ (where the is replaced with the instrument number; a blue convention), and then that index is used to index into the sine table. The 8 tables of the CZ101 then are not modified but the lookup is. The phase-shape table then has boundaries of 0-1, to correspond with the phase. This would be different than what I think Anthony is building which I believe is more akin to waveshaping than phase distortion. Can anyone confirm this? steven On Dec 5, 2007 12:59 PM, wrote: > yes, I used to play on a borrowed cz1000 with > four voices of polyphony and no velocity. I liked the > mono synth sounds I used to get out of it. > > At the time, the cz line was viewed more or less like > the poor man's DX7, but I think it was more than that. > > Victor > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Steven Yi > > Date: Wednesday, December 5, 2007 8:54 pm > Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] New opcodes useful? > To: Developer discussions > > > I'm continuing to research now as I wasn't really familiar with the > > CZ101 before and find this all fascinating. I also found this: > > > > http://www.algomusic.net/PDSynthesis.html > > > > The manual for the CZ101: > > > > http://www.casionz.co.nz/Site/Pronto/Files/user_manuals/CZ101%20USER%20MANUAL.PDF > > > > This page has an interesting look at the generated waveforms compared > > to the pictures: > > > > http://www.madtheory.com/CZ%20article/CZ%20article.htm > > > > Not sure how much more info there is there for technical description, > > but I find the CZ101 general info pretty interesting and am enjoying > > listening to mp3 samples. =) > > > > steven > > > > On Dec 5, 2007 12:19 PM, wrote: > > > yes, I saw that some time ago. Not much in the way of > > > a mathematical description, though. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Steven Yi > > > Date: Wednesday, December 5, 2007 8:15 pm > > > Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] New opcodes useful? > > > > > > To: Developer discussions > > > > > > > Hi Victor, > > > > > > > > I did find this wikipedia article just now: > > > > > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase_distortion_synthesis > > > > > > > > BTW: I'm looking very forward too trying these out Anthony! > > > > > > > > steven > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Dec 5, 2007 11:54 AM, > > wrote:> > > Do you know if there is any references on PD in the > > > > > literature. Apart from the simple descriptions on Casio > > > > > manuals, I never saw anything else. > > > > > > > > > > yes, the PD technique as I understand it does not seem > > > > > to be bandlimited. But I wonder if there are any tricks > > > > > that are not documented anywhere. > > > > > > > > > > Also do you know how to produce the resonant version > > > > > of PD? That was an interesting sound. > > > > > > > > > > Interesting to see the classic topic of waveshaping being > > > > > discussed, as well. In these days of fast computers, people > > > > > seemed to forget about these great ways of economically > > > > > synthesising complex spectra. > > > > > > > > > > Victor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Anthony Kozar > > > > > Date: Wednesday, December 5, 2007 7:40 pm > > > > > Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] New opcodes useful? > > > > > To: Csound Developer list > devel@lists.sourceforge.net>> > > > > > > > > Well, if my intuitions are correct, using continuous k-rate > > > > > > > > > > > coefficientswith either the polynomial or chebyshevpoly > > opcodes> > > > should produce smooth > > > > > > and continuous changes in the output. I have > > tested the > > > > > > latter by > > > > > > controlling several harmonics independently and I got smooth > > > > > > changes just as > > > > > > if I had used additive synthesis with multiple > > > > > > oscillators. I would be > > > > > > interested to know if there is some mathematical problem > > > > that I am > > > > > > overlooking. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding the phase distortion opcodes: the reason > > I was > > > > > > questioning their > > > > > > utility is that they DO produce aliasing because the > > derivative> > > > of the > > > > > > resulting signal is discontinuous. I think -- but > > am not > > > > > > sure -- that > > > > > > Casio's original implementation of this technique was > > not 100% > > > > > > digital. But > > > > > > depending on the genre of music, aliasing is not always > > a bad > > > > > > thing :) > > > > > > > > > > > > Another use for the PD opcodes is to use them on audio signals > > > > > > instead of > > > > > > phasors, in which case they behave as piecewise-linear > > transfer> > > > functions.This also produces aliasing, but they > > have definite > > > > > > applications as > > > > > > alternative distortion techniques. powershape is also > > > > > > excellent for > > > > > > distortion, although it can produce milder, bandlimited > > > > changes too. > > > > > > > > > > > > At least this is my understanding of everything -- I am > > not a > > > > > > DSP guru ... > > > > > > > > > > > > Anthony Kozar > > > > > > anthonykozar AT sbcglobal DOT net > > > > > > http://anthonykozar.net/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Victor.Lazzarini@nuim.ie wrote on 12/5/07 4:00 AM: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Interesting... I am wondering if radical changes tothe the > > > > > > transfer function > > > > > > > would cause discontinuities inthe output signal. Never > > thought> > > > of the > > > > > > > question. I'll love to try them. Coincidentally, I was only > > > > > > > yesterdayteaching > > > > > > > a class on waveshaping. > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Victor.Lazzarini@nuim.ie wrote on 12/5/07 2:54 AM: > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >>> PD seem useful. UDOs are also good because they're > > > > > > didactical, can you > > > > > > >>> do both? > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> Thanks. I wrote the phase dist. opcodes (and > > powershape> > > > below) a while ago > > > > > > >> but I will make UDOs too. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >>> How do the waveshaping opcodes you mention > > > > > > >>> differ from simply building them with oscillator and table > > > > > > >>> lookup? > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> They allow for _dynamic_ waveshaping where the transfer > > > > > > function varies over > > > > > > >> time. I have written the following opcodes so > > far and > > > > > > hope to come up with > > > > > > >> some more: > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> aout powershape ain, > > kShapeAmount [, > > > > > > ifullscale]>> aout polynomial > > ain, ka0 > > > > > > [, ka1 [, ka2 [...]]] > > > > > > >> aout chebyshevpoly ain, ka0 [, ka1 [, ka2 [...]]] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------- > > ---- > > > > ---- > > > > > > -------- > > > > > > SF.Net email is sponsored by: The Future of Linux Business > > > > White Paper > > > > > > from Novell. From the desktop to the data center, > > > > Linux is going > > > > > > mainstream. Let it simplify your IT future. > > > > > > http://altfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/8857-50307-18918-4 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Csound-devel mailing list > > > > > > Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > ---- > > > > ---------- > > > > > SF.Net email is sponsored by: The Future of Linux Business > > > > White Paper > > > > > from Novell. From the desktop to the data center, Linux > > > > is going > > > > > mainstream. Let it simplify your IT future. > > > > > http://altfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/8857-50307-18918-4 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Csound-devel mailing list > > > > > Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > ---- > > > > -------- > > > > SF.Net email is sponsored by: The Future of Linux Business > > White Paper > > > > from Novell. From the desktop to the data center, > > Linux is going > > > > mainstream. Let it simplify your IT future. > > > > http://altfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/8857-50307-18918-4 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Csound-devel mailing list > > > > Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > ---------- > > > SF.Net email is sponsored by: The Future of Linux Business > > White Paper > > > from Novell. From the desktop to the data center, Linux > > is going > > > mainstream. Let it simplify your IT future. > > > http://altfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/8857-50307-18918-4 > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Csound-devel mailing list > > > Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > > -------- > > SF.Net email is sponsored by: The Future of Linux Business White Paper > > from Novell. From the desktop to the data center, Linux is going > > mainstream. Let it simplify your IT future. > > http://altfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/8857-50307-18918-4 > > _______________________________________________ > > Csound-devel mailing list > > Csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-devel > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > SF.Net email is sponsored by: The Future of Linux Business White Paper > from Novell. 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