Hey hey,
I've been scouring the net to see if there are applications to convert .sofa 
files to Csound HRTF data format. Well, I don't know which format Csound 
exactly uses.

Does anyone know of applications to do that? Preferably on the commandline and 
Unix compatible or does Csound itself already support the SOFA format?

Best wishes,

Jeanette

-- 
  * Website: http://juliencoder.de - for summer is a state of sound
  * Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMS4rfGrTwz8W7jhC1Jnv7g
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hdf5read csound.com

What format csound uses for the hrtf opcodes I’m not entirely sure though. 



Maybe the "sofar" Python package can do that?

See https://www.sofaconventions.org/mediawiki/index.php/Software_and_APIs#sofar:_Maybe_the_most_complete_Python_package_for_the_SOFA_file_format_(read/write_support).

On Thu, Apr 18, 2024 at 4:32 PM Jeanette C. <julien@mail.upb.de> wrote:

Hey hey,
I've been scouring the net to see if there are applications to convert .sofa
files to Csound HRTF data format. Well, I don't know which format Csound
exactly uses.

Does anyone know of applications to do that? Preferably on the commandline and
Unix compatible or does Csound itself already support the SOFA format?

Best wishes,

Jeanette

--
  * Website: http://juliencoder.de - for summer is a state of sound
  * Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMS4rfGrTwz8W7jhC1Jnv7g
  * Audiobombs: https://www.audiobombs.com/users/jeanette_c
  * GitHub: https://github.com/jeanette-c

There must be another way
Cause I believe in taking chances
But who am I to say - What a girl is to do <3
(Britney Spears)

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Brian tells me you can find the info here

https://illustro-iadt.figshare.com/articles/thesis/Development_of_open_source_tools_for_creative_and_commercial_exploitation_of_spatial_audio/25444405


best
========================
Prof. Victor Lazzarini
Maynooth University
Ireland

> On 18 Apr 2024, at 21:32, Jeanette C.  wrote:
>
> *Warning*
>
> This email originated from outside of Maynooth University's Mail System. Do not reply, click links or open attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe.
>
> Hey hey,
> I've been scouring the net to see if there are applications to convert .sofa
> files to Csound HRTF data format. Well, I don't know which format Csound
> exactly uses.
>
> Does anyone know of applications to do that? Preferably on the commandline and
> Unix compatible or does Csound itself already support the SOFA format?
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Jeanette
>
> --
> * Website: http://juliencoder.de/ - for summer is a state of sound
> * Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMS4rfGrTwz8W7jhC1Jnv7g
> * Audiobombs: https://www.audiobombs.com/users/jeanette_c
> * GitHub: https://github.com/jeanette-c
>
> There must be another way
> Cause I believe in taking chances
> But who am I to say - What a girl is to do <3
> (Britney Spears)
>
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>       https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Csound mailing list
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Hi everyone,
thanks, Andy, Anders and Victor. there was valuable info here.

Victor, could you ask Brian, if he has some contact info for Thomas McDonnell? 
The paper is ace and the code looks clean and concise enough. Though it would 
be helpful to obtain a raw copy. I couldn't find it online, only in the 
context of the paper. Extracting it by hand, having to reformat it, is tedious 
work. Not impossible, but I wold like to avoid it. :)

Best wishes and thanks again to all of you,

Jeanette

-- 
  * Website: http://juliencoder.de - for summer is a state of sound
  * Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMS4rfGrTwz8W7jhC1Jnv7g
  * Audiobombs: https://www.audiobombs.com/users/jeanette_c
  * GitHub: https://github.com/jeanette-c

All I need is time
A moment that is mine
While I'm in between <3
(Britney Spears)

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Brian said he'll ask him on Monday.
Prof. Victor Lazzarini
Maynooth University
Ireland

> On 19 Apr 2024, at 22:24, Jeanette C.  wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
> thanks, Andy, Anders and Victor. there was valuable info here.
>
> Victor, could you ask Brian, if he has some contact info for Thomas McDonnell? The paper is ace and the code looks clean and concise enough. Though it would be helpful to obtain a raw copy. I couldn't find it online, only in the context of the paper. Extracting it by hand, having to reformat it, is tedious work. Not impossible, but I wold like to avoid it. :)
>
> Best wishes and thanks again to all of you,
>
> Jeanette
>
> --
> * Website: http://juliencoder.de/ - for summer is a state of sound
> * Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMS4rfGrTwz8W7jhC1Jnv7g
> * Audiobombs: https://www.audiobombs.com/users/jeanette_c
> * GitHub: https://github.com/jeanette-c
>
> All I need is time
> A moment that is mine
> While I'm in between <3
> (Britney Spears)
>
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>       https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

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Apr 20 2024, Victor Lazzarini has written:

> Brian said he'll ask him on Monday.
Many thanks to both of you!

Best wishes,

Jeanette

...

-- 
  * Website: http://juliencoder.de - for summer is a state of sound
  * Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMS4rfGrTwz8W7jhC1Jnv7g
  * Audiobombs: https://www.audiobombs.com/users/jeanette_c
  * GitHub: https://github.com/jeanette-c

For whatever reason,
I feel like I've been wanting you all my life <3
(Britney Spears)

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Hi Risto,
HRTF-based binaural 3d relies on a "generic" head model. This is supplied with 
Csound or can be downloaded, the hrtf-44100-left.dat and hrtf-44100-right.dat 
and similar.

The heads used to create these files were generic. The idea is to suite many 
people quite well. Though there are always some people for whom they don't 
work well.

To get the best experience, you should sit or stand quite still with your head 
erect. I.e. normal head position for looking straight ahead.

It help to have more audio cues. There are the hrtfearly and hrtfreverb 
opcodes. They also simulate a virtual room. This can help. I have used that in 
Csound compositions. For example:
http://juliencoder.de/nama/in_a_room.mp3
https://youtu.be/bah-8V_s47U
or
https://youtu.be/_Qsr5tS86QA

The first and second one offer a bit of movement, the second one perhaps the 
most, also along the z-axis.

the basic idea of HRTF-based binaural spatialisation is: you can hear that 
something is in front of you or behind you, because your own head and the 
shape of your ears, filter audio and cause phase shift. In the real world you 
can hear 3d with two ears, so you should be able to hear 3d with a pair of 
headphones, because the headphone speakers are directly above your ears, i.e. 
playing straight into your ears. If you then mimic these filters and phase 
shift and everything, you should get a 3d-impression.

If you don't simulate that, you could use in-ear microphones, also sometimes 
called ambisonic microphones. "Ambisonic" can be a bit misleading here. You 
can find demos of those on youtube as well. Roland has one or two products in 
that line, the Beyerdynamic Ambeo mics made a splash, a few years ago. Or 
there is the OKM II by Soundman. they had a few nice musical demos on their 
website, with a string quartet in fixed places though.

You could also find open source, free and commercial plugins in the usual 
formats, compatible with many DAWs.

If you want a small demonstration of the effects involved, there was a Youtube 
video with someone making their own "HRTF-like" Ableton device. He didn't use 
a true recorded HRTF, but he observed all the things that change when a signal 
is in front, behind, below or above a head and emulated them. But I can't find 
that video. It was posted as news on SonicState just a few weeks ago though.

I hope some of that helps.

Best wishes,

Jeanette

-- 
  * Website: http://juliencoder.de - for summer is a state of sound
  * Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMS4rfGrTwz8W7jhC1Jnv7g
  * Audiobombs: https://www.audiobombs.com/users/jeanette_c
  * GitHub: https://github.com/jeanette-c

Top down, on the strip
Lookin' in the mirror
I'm checkin' out my lipstick <3
(Britney Spears)

Csound mailing list
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For some reason, I might not be getting some mails from the list. The email you replied to here did not come to me.
You had also mentioned Anders and Andy and I did not see their replies either.

I wonder what is going on. Nothing in my junk folder either.

Prof. Victor Lazzarini
Maynooth University
Ireland

> On 20 Apr 2024, at 18:22, Jeanette C.  wrote:
>
> Hi Risto,
> HRTF-based binaural 3d relies on a "generic" head model. This is supplied with Csound or can be downloaded, the hrtf-44100-left.dat and hrtf-44100-right.dat and similar.
>
> The heads used to create these files were generic. The idea is to suite many people quite well. Though there are always some people for whom they don't work well.
>
> To get the best experience, you should sit or stand quite still with your head erect. I.e. normal head position for looking straight ahead.
>
> It help to have more audio cues. There are the hrtfearly and hrtfreverb opcodes. They also simulate a virtual room. This can help. I have used that in Csound compositions. For example:
> http://juliencoder.de/nama/in_a_room.mp3
> https://youtu.be/bah-8V_s47U
> or
> https://youtu.be/_Qsr5tS86QA
>
> The first and second one offer a bit of movement, the second one perhaps the most, also along the z-axis.
>
> the basic idea of HRTF-based binaural spatialisation is: you can hear that something is in front of you or behind you, because your own head and the shape of your ears, filter audio and cause phase shift. In the real world you can hear 3d with two ears, so you should be able to hear 3d with a pair of headphones, because the headphone speakers are directly above your ears, i.e. playing straight into your ears. If you then mimic these filters and phase shift and everything, you should get a 3d-impression.
>
> If you don't simulate that, you could use in-ear microphones, also sometimes called ambisonic microphones. "Ambisonic" can be a bit misleading here. You can find demos of those on youtube as well. Roland has one or two products in that line, the Beyerdynamic Ambeo mics made a splash, a few years ago. Or there is the OKM II by Soundman. they had a few nice musical demos on their website, with a string quartet in fixed places though.
>
> You could also find open source, free and commercial plugins in the usual formats, compatible with many DAWs.
>
> If you want a small demonstration of the effects involved, there was a Youtube video with someone making their own "HRTF-like" Ableton device. He didn't use a true recorded HRTF, but he observed all the things that change when a signal is in front, behind, below or above a head and emulated them. But I can't find that video. It was posted as news on SonicState just a few weeks ago though.
>
> I hope some of that helps.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Jeanette
>
> --
> * Website: http://juliencoder.de/ - for summer is a state of sound
> * Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMS4rfGrTwz8W7jhC1Jnv7g
> * Audiobombs: https://www.audiobombs.com/users/jeanette_c
> * GitHub: https://github.com/jeanette-c
>
> Top down, on the strip
> Lookin' in the mirror
> I'm checkin' out my lipstick <3
> (Britney Spears)
>
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>       https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

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Hi Victor,
this is strange. It is most likely a really stupid idea, but might it be 
related to your interaction with the list. I mean that all your replies come 
with subject lines:
Re: [Csnd] [EXTERNAL] [Csnd] ...
instead of just:
Re: [Csnd] ...

I'm very glad my first mail reached you and you were so kind as to forward my 
question to Brian.

Best wishes,

Jeanette

-- 
  * Website: http://juliencoder.de - for summer is a state of sound
  * Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMS4rfGrTwz8W7jhC1Jnv7g
  * Audiobombs: https://www.audiobombs.com/users/jeanette_c
  * GitHub: https://github.com/jeanette-c

Top down, on the strip
Lookin' in the mirror
I'm checkin' out my lipstick <3
(Britney Spears)

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That [EXTERNAL] is added by my mail server and when I reply it is there.
I don’t really know what is going on, maybe Andy, Anders and Risto are blacklisted here somehow. I can see their replies in the list server, but these did not seem to have been delivered to me. Strange. I’ll ask IT here.

========================
Prof. Victor Lazzarini
Maynooth University
Ireland

> On 20 Apr 2024, at 20:05, Jeanette C.  wrote:
>
> Hi Victor,
> this is strange. It is most likely a really stupid idea, but might it be related to your interaction with the list. I mean that all your replies come with subject lines:
> Re: [Csnd] [EXTERNAL] [Csnd] ...
> instead of just:
> Re: [Csnd] ...
>
> I'm very glad my first mail reached you and you were so kind as to forward my question to Brian.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Jeanette
>
> --
> * Website: http://juliencoder.de/ - for summer is a state of sound
> * Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMS4rfGrTwz8W7jhC1Jnv7g
> * Audiobombs: https://www.audiobombs.com/users/jeanette_c
> * GitHub: https://github.com/jeanette-c
>
> Top down, on the strip
> Lookin' in the mirror
> I'm checkin' out my lipstick <3
> (Britney Spears)
>
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>       https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here


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Hi Risto,
well, front and back wouldn't change, they are not bound to left and right, 
but to certain filters, phases and volume, which remains the same, no matter 
which way you wear your headphones.

There wasn't much in the way of height in two of them. Hatched from an empty 
shell had stronger elements of height. The echoes help in emphasizing the 
effect.

Btw. I heard that the example link you have posted worked a lot with sine 
waves. Sine waves, especially steady tones, are not good to demonstrate that. 
Parts of the impression come from filtering. I think a usual change happens 
within the 8-10kHz bands. Good ways to show these effects work with wider band 
tones (voice, saw waves, noisy elements, pluck strings) and clear envelopes, 
especially with simulated rooms so you can clearly perceive the reflections on 
the walls. So spoken word, drum loops, clearly pucked strings, sharp 
modulations. Good transients in short.

Naturally, you can introduce more cues, like doppler effects for quickly 
moving objects. But that's just icing on the top. :)

Best wishes,

Jeanette

-- 
  * Website: http://juliencoder.de - for summer is a state of sound
  * Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMS4rfGrTwz8W7jhC1Jnv7g
  * Audiobombs: https://www.audiobombs.com/users/jeanette_c
  * GitHub: https://github.com/jeanette-c

Don't worry, you're gonna be alright,
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