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Re: [Csnd] The Suspenseful Flute, generative atonal example using sndwarpst

Date2023-01-08 03:34
FromScott Daughtrey
SubjectRe: [Csnd] The Suspenseful Flute, generative atonal example using sndwarpst
´╗┐Thank you all for the kind responses, but to be very clear Iain McCurdy deserves the credit here.

I started on Csound some time in August as primarily a musician with no programming experience. Thanks to some very generous help (Jeanette has been a treasure) I've been able to slowly use Csound towards my musical endeavors. Granular synthesis was one of the main techniques I wanted to explore and being limited to using Android there were few available options. But that, and Csound in general, have a fairly steep learning curve.

I'm generally now able to create much of my code from scratch, but when approaching new techniques and opcodes I study and look for examples. Thru manipulating and experimenting with those I eventually add those tools to my skillset so I can attempt to use them creatively, much like learning an instrument.

While there are many great technical examples, for me, finding musical examples that are inspiring can be a little more difficult and in that respect Iain's examples, among others, have been a particular source of inspiration as we all have our own individual tastes and goals.

Of course my primary goal with Csound is self motivated, but having taught music for some years I'm also motivated to share musical examples in the hopes that it might help other less experienced programmers or musicians to find ways to apply Csound to their own endeavors.

In this case, having just begun my explorations into granular synthesis, I know very little about the effective use of many parameters. I changed very little of Iain's code in terms of windowing, overlap etc., as it didn't seem necessary - I was happy with the results as is (no clicking, nice variety of timbres). I adapted the resample range to accommodate the flute sample and modified the triggering to get the results I wanted, along with a few other minor changes. Hopefully with time and effort I'll get more comfortable altering the granular opcodes in a more intuitive way. 

I also added an fout instrument for recording. I find this quite useful with generative music as it allows hearing or altering the output in real-time while simultaneously writing to disk. Often as I listen I know quite soon if I'm getting a pleasing result - if not I just stop the rendering and start again. I like to render several times, altering the output filename each time which allows subsequently choosing a version that might have a little more magic than others.

The original example from Iain is from the FLOSS manual, 05G09_selfmade_grain.csd as noted in my csd. The flute sample I found in a Csound package here: 
https://archlinux.org/packages/community/x86_64/csoundqt/

The package fortunately contains all the csd files from the FLOSS manual (which saved me from having to copy them individually) and source materials in a single archive as well as many other examples. 

Personally I feel it would be worth including a link to a single archive containing these on the FLOSS manual home page: 
 https://flossmanual.csound.com/

While the resources can be found scattered around here:
https://github.com/csound-flossmanual/csound-floss
a single archive containing the csd files and other source materials would be very beneficial to learners IMO. Perhaps I just didn't find one there? 

The csd and flute sample can be found here: 
https://github.com/ST-Music/csound-examples/tree/sndwarpst

Apologies for the lengthy post, brevity is not my strong suit. 

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Date2023-01-08 13:32
Fromjoachim heintz
SubjectRe: [Csnd] The Suspenseful Flute, generative atonal example using sndwarpst
hi scott -

yes we all share this opinion about iain's examples =)

i think what you search is here:
https://github.com/csound-flossmanual/csound-floss/releases/download/7.0.0/csound-flossmanual-7.0.0-examples.zip

but i agree that it would be good to have it less hidden.  i will speak 
with the master of this website ... --- actually we are planning a new 
release and this could be a good occasion.

cheers -
	joachim



On 08/01/2023 04:34, Scott Daughtrey wrote:
> ´╗┐Thank you all for the kind responses, but to be very clear Iain McCurdy deserves the credit here.
> 
> I started on Csound some time in August as primarily a musician with no programming experience. Thanks to some very generous help (Jeanette has been a treasure) I've been able to slowly use Csound towards my musical endeavors. Granular synthesis was one of the main techniques I wanted to explore and being limited to using Android there were few available options. But that, and Csound in general, have a fairly steep learning curve.
> 
> I'm generally now able to create much of my code from scratch, but when approaching new techniques and opcodes I study and look for examples. Thru manipulating and experimenting with those I eventually add those tools to my skillset so I can attempt to use them creatively, much like learning an instrument.
> 
> While there are many great technical examples, for me, finding musical examples that are inspiring can be a little more difficult and in that respect Iain's examples, among others, have been a particular source of inspiration as we all have our own individual tastes and goals.
> 
> Of course my primary goal with Csound is self motivated, but having taught music for some years I'm also motivated to share musical examples in the hopes that it might help other less experienced programmers or musicians to find ways to apply Csound to their own endeavors.
> 
> In this case, having just begun my explorations into granular synthesis, I know very little about the effective use of many parameters. I changed very little of Iain's code in terms of windowing, overlap etc., as it didn't seem necessary - I was happy with the results as is (no clicking, nice variety of timbres). I adapted the resample range to accommodate the flute sample and modified the triggering to get the results I wanted, along with a few other minor changes. Hopefully with time and effort I'll get more comfortable altering the granular opcodes in a more intuitive way.
> 
> I also added an fout instrument for recording. I find this quite useful with generative music as it allows hearing or altering the output in real-time while simultaneously writing to disk. Often as I listen I know quite soon if I'm getting a pleasing result - if not I just stop the rendering and start again. I like to render several times, altering the output filename each time which allows subsequently choosing a version that might have a little more magic than others.
> 
> The original example from Iain is from the FLOSS manual, 05G09_selfmade_grain.csd as noted in my csd. The flute sample I found in a Csound package here:
> https://archlinux.org/packages/community/x86_64/csoundqt/
> 
> The package fortunately contains all the csd files from the FLOSS manual (which saved me from having to copy them individually) and source materials in a single archive as well as many other examples.
> 
> Personally I feel it would be worth including a link to a single archive containing these on the FLOSS manual home page:
>   https://flossmanual.csound.com/
> 
> While the resources can be found scattered around here:
> https://github.com/csound-flossmanual/csound-floss
> a single archive containing the csd files and other source materials would be very beneficial to learners IMO. Perhaps I just didn't find one there?
> 
> The csd and flute sample can be found here:
> https://github.com/ST-Music/csound-examples/tree/sndwarpst
> 
> Apologies for the lengthy post, brevity is not my strong suit.
> 
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>          https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Csound mailing list
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https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
Send bugs reports to
        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Date2023-01-10 11:26
FromIain McCurdy
SubjectRe: [Csnd] The Suspenseful Flute, generative atonal example using sndwarpst
Thank you for this mention, Scott. I'm very glad this work has been useful to you.
Iain

From: A discussion list for users of Csound <CSOUND@LISTSERV.HEANET.IE> on behalf of Scott Daughtrey <stunes6556@GMAIL.COM>
Sent: 08 January 2023 03:34
To: CSOUND@LISTSERV.HEANET.IE <CSOUND@LISTSERV.HEANET.IE>
Subject: Re: [Csnd] The Suspenseful Flute, generative atonal example using sndwarpst
 
Thank you all for the kind responses, but to be very clear Iain McCurdy deserves the credit here.

I started on Csound some time in August as primarily a musician with no programming experience. Thanks to some very generous help (Jeanette has been a treasure) I've been able to slowly use Csound towards my musical endeavors. Granular synthesis was one of the main techniques I wanted to explore and being limited to using Android there were few available options. But that, and Csound in general, have a fairly steep learning curve.

I'm generally now able to create much of my code from scratch, but when approaching new techniques and opcodes I study and look for examples. Thru manipulating and experimenting with those I eventually add those tools to my skillset so I can attempt to use them creatively, much like learning an instrument.

While there are many great technical examples, for me, finding musical examples that are inspiring can be a little more difficult and in that respect Iain's examples, among others, have been a particular source of inspiration as we all have our own individual tastes and goals.

Of course my primary goal with Csound is self motivated, but having taught music for some years I'm also motivated to share musical examples in the hopes that it might help other less experienced programmers or musicians to find ways to apply Csound to their own endeavors.

In this case, having just begun my explorations into granular synthesis, I know very little about the effective use of many parameters. I changed very little of Iain's code in terms of windowing, overlap etc., as it didn't seem necessary - I was happy with the results as is (no clicking, nice variety of timbres). I adapted the resample range to accommodate the flute sample and modified the triggering to get the results I wanted, along with a few other minor changes. Hopefully with time and effort I'll get more comfortable altering the granular opcodes in a more intuitive way.

I also added an fout instrument for recording. I find this quite useful with generative music as it allows hearing or altering the output in real-time while simultaneously writing to disk. Often as I listen I know quite soon if I'm getting a pleasing result - if not I just stop the rendering and start again. I like to render several times, altering the output filename each time which allows subsequently choosing a version that might have a little more magic than others.

The original example from Iain is from the FLOSS manual, 05G09_selfmade_grain.csd as noted in my csd. The flute sample I found in a Csound package here:
https://archlinux.org/packages/community/x86_64/csoundqt/

The package fortunately contains all the csd files from the FLOSS manual (which saved me from having to copy them individually) and source materials in a single archive as well as many other examples.

Personally I feel it would be worth including a link to a single archive containing these on the FLOSS manual home page:
 https://flossmanual.csound.com/

While the resources can be found scattered around here:
https://github.com/csound-flossmanual/csound-floss
a single archive containing the csd files and other source materials would be very beneficial to learners IMO. Perhaps I just didn't find one there?

The csd and flute sample can be found here:
https://github.com/ST-Music/csound-examples/tree/sndwarpst

Apologies for the lengthy post, brevity is not my strong suit.

Csound mailing list
Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
Send bugs reports to
        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here